Just for Fun - The Perfect Spectrum

[Dana Riddle]

There is no such thing as a *perfect* spectrum for corals, but I arrived at these numbers while working on a project. It includes UV-A as well as the normally considered violet-red wavelengths. Again, just for giggles, but its fairly close.

UV (350-399) 13.6%
Violet (400-430) 22.3%
Blue (431-480) 29.0%
Green-Blue (481-490) 4.6%
Blue-Green (491-510) 4.4%
Green (511-530) 7.5%
Yellow-Green (531-570) 5.0%
Yellow (571-580) 1.0%
Orange (581-600) 1.7%
Red (601-700) 10.8%

 

[Flippers4pups]

Surprisingly green and red are so high!

 

[Justin Thain]

Just ask, because you I don’t know. How was this determined?

 

[oreo54]

Surprisingly green and red are so high!

Won't see them.. Overall quite blue light..

My fun...........

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED UV (390nm) [120°] x7
LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x22
LED RoyalBlue (440nm) [120°] x1
LED Blue (470nm) [120°] x29
LED Cyan (490nm) [120°] x4
LED Cyan (510nm) [120°] x4
LED Green (520nm) [120°] x7
LED Green (540nm) [120°] x10
LED Amber (580nm) [120°] x4
LED Amber (590nm) [120°] x9
LED Amber (600nm) [120°] x1
LED Red (610nm) [120°] x1
LED Red (620nm) [120°] x2
LED Red (630nm) [120°] x1
LED DeepRed (640nm) [120°] x3
LED DeepRed (660nm) [120°] x2
LED DeepRed (670nm) [120°] x2

More violet tint..bit more "color"...

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED UV (390nm) [120°] x5
LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x13
LED RoyalBlue (440nm) [120°] x1
LED RoyalBlue (450nm) [120°] x4
LED Blue (470nm) [120°] x11
LED Cyan (490nm) [120°] x4
LED Cyan (510nm) [120°] x4
LED Green (520nm) [120°] x7
LED Green (540nm) [120°] x10
LED Amber (580nm) [120°] x4
LED Amber (590nm) [120°] x9
LED Amber (600nm) [120°] x1
LED Red (610nm) [120°] x1
LED Red (620nm) [120°] x2
LED Red (630nm) [120°] x1
LED DeepRed (640nm) [120°] x3
LED DeepRed (660nm) [120°] x2
LED DeepRed (670nm) [120°] x2

 

[Abhishek]

Very interesting revelation Dana . Am curious to know how these numbers were arrived at ? Also if these are perfect numbers - do they mean that corals under them will have increased photosynthesis and growth rate or these spectrum in the above proportion will make the corals display their colors inbthe best possible way ?

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[lbacha]

Hello Dana

Interesting chart it seems very close to what orpheks atlantik v4 produces at all channels the same level which they state is their coral growth setting. I just got one and my tank is definitely a lot more green than it was before.

Old sbreef with lots of blue (if I turned the white channel up on it the tank was yellow)

Atlantik v4 all channels even

As you can see with their coral growth setting the tank shows off the green film algae where under the blue lights it looks reddish.

Your data supports what they state is their ultimate coral growth spectrum (they also have a 850nm infra red led as well which isn't on your list)

Thanks for the research it's great to see data supporting our hobby

Len

 

[taricha]

That chart is quite the tease. I assume we'll get the full details revealed later?

 

[Dana Riddle]

The chart is a composite of data from several sources - absorption of photopigments (chl a, chl c2, peridinin-chlorophyll protein, beta-carotene as shown in Shirley Jeffrey's works), the absorption spectrum of zooxanthellate from a Favia coral (can't recall the reference off the top of my head), and absorbance by a Fungia coral I did in Hawaii years ago. As I said, this is just for fun, as light intensity (which varies among zooxanthellate clades) goes hand in hand with spectral quality. In addition, PUR differs among organisms (such as green, red, brown plant algae, dinoflagellates, etc.) Throw fluorescent/reflective pigments into the mix, and things get really complicated. Again, no such thing as a universal perfect spectrum. As for the 850nm question, Ronny Schopke (did I spell that right?) from Germany sent some PAM fluorometer data to me about a year ago I think, showing electron flow when illuminated by an IR LED. I have some questions about this and hope to confirm/deny at some point.

 

[DancingShark]

I have a question on spectrum. In my sump I have had trouble with long hair green algea, cotton candy algea and green slime. The cc algea and lha have made it to my DT only to whither away. My sump light are mostly red and blue from looking at the led diodes. While the display tank have SBReef light. I switched out the lights for a CF bulb and they have all mostly died.

So the question is, is there a connection between what spectrum is algea growing to wether or not they strive to the point of tanking over a tank? In this case my sump.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I have a question on spectrum. In my sump I have had trouble with long hair green algea, cotton candy algea and green slime. The cc algea and lha have made it to my DT only to whither away. My sump light are mostly red and blue from looking at the led diodes. While the display tank have SBReef light. I switched out the lights for a CF bulb and they have all mostly died.

So the question is, is there a connection between what spectrum is algea growing to wether or not they strive to the point of tanking over a tank? In this case my sump.

I hope others will chime in here - It has been a axiom in the hobby for years that degradation of spectral qualities in certain lamps (fluorescents, metal halides) will encourage certain algae to grow. The reasoning is usually that the lamp becomes 'more red' (suggesting the total amount of red increases) which gives me some heartburn - the lamps often becomes less blue and the percentage of red increases. The difficulty (for me at least) is separating intensity from spectrum. It is true that chromatic adaptation can occur, but I'm not at all sure preferential growths will occur. My focus for years has been responses of zooxanthellae to light intensity and how it might affect coral growth, so responses of green, brown, and red algae are a bit out of my field (although there is no doubt that their absorbance qualities differ.) Anyone - ideas, suggestions?

 

[oreo54]

Algae spore germination has been shown to be encouraged by free Ammonia/Ammonium.
Locally or overall..

Anything that encourages its production will encourage germination.

Once growth begins than nutrient excesses play a part..

Little to do w/ spectrum except for its effects on growth/death/ammonia changes due to..........

At least as I currently understand it..

Same w/ freshwater.. High nutrients/high light fast plant growth and fast decay.. higher ammonia levels.. more algae (blooms).

 

[DancingShark]

Nutrients haven't changed. Still feeding same amounts just changed lights (spectrum I guess) algea has gone away in about a weeks time. I'll hook up the lights again and see if the algea takes over the sump. If it does and I am able to replicate the outcomes then I guess there should be a connection with spectrum and algea. This is just ideas and trying to understand what I have seen in my tank.

 

[Pmj]

Violet being such a big % is surprising to me. It seems to be saying your should have more total V + UV than Blues, whereas most fixtures would have a much higher number of blues.

@oreo5457 Have a layout for a black box to share? I have one on my second tank and have changed the layout a few times.

 

[John3]

Seems pretty close to running the AB+ light schedule.

 

[taricha]

. As for the 850nm question, Ronny Schopke (did I spell that right?) from Germany sent some PAM fluorometer data to me about a year ago I think, showing electron flow when illuminated by an IR LED. I have some questions about this and hope to confirm/deny at some point.

Has a resonance ever been observed between frequencies and their double or half frequencies?
I mean in physics/sound a system that has a resonance frequency of 500hz can be made to wiggle by waves of the octave below (250hz) or the octave above (1000hz).
So have we ever seen the mechanisms that absorb, say 425nm light become excited by 850nm, or the mechanisms that absorb at 700nm excited by 350nm?

just spitballing here... If the absorption happens by method of vibrations in the bonds of the protein complex, then yes - it may also vibrate in response to the light an "octave" above or below.
If however, the absorption mechanism is by electrons kicked up to higher energy levels, then it probably wouldn't have any similar response to wavelengths/ frequencies double or half the ideal.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Has a resonance ever been observed between frequencies and their double or half frequencies?
I mean in physics/sound a system that has a resonance frequency of 500hz can be made to wiggle by waves of the octave below (250hz) or the octave above (1000hz).
So have we ever seen the mechanisms that absorb, say 425nm light become excited by 850nm, or the mechanisms that absorb at 700nm excited by 350nm?

just spitballing here... If the absorption happens by method of vibrations in the bonds of the protein complex, then yes - it may also vibrate in response to the light an "octave" above or below.
If however, the absorption mechanism is by electrons kicked up to higher energy levels, then it probably wouldn't have any similar response to wavelengths/ frequencies double or half the ideal.

I know Forster Resonance Energy Transfer (FRET) occurs, but that's about all I know at this point. Could a wavelength of 850nm transfer energy to, say, Photosystem I's reaction center (P-700)? I'll let physicists/phycologists figure this one out. I'm awaiting a custom-built IR LED fixture so I can report if there's an electron transfer but the exact mechanism is beyond what I can do in the lab.

 

[lbacha]

Has anyone done research on what corals do better at different depths on the reef. Spectum changes as you go deeper so I'm curious how that impacts our spectrum choices in a reef aquarium. I've noticed a lot of lights lately focus on blues and less on violets and reds which et filtered out first. I really likes the orpheks spectrum chart as it had a lot of violet and red which would be present in a shallow reef.

 

[taricha]

I have a question on spectrum. In my sump I have had trouble with long hair green algea, cotton candy algea and green slime. The cc algea and lha have made it to my DT only to whither away. My sump light are mostly red and blue from looking at the led diodes. While the display tank have SBReef light. I switched out the lights for a CF bulb and they have all mostly died.

So the question is, is there a connection between what spectrum is algea growing to wether or not they strive to the point of tanking over a tank? In this case my sump.

Yes, absolutely there must be.
Let me put it this way, When you grab a big mass of diatoms, or Dinos (zooxanthellae included), or chaeto, caulerpa, or a red macro - your eyeballs are a cheap inaccurate spectrophotometer. The colors that we see when these things are lit by broad spectrum lighting hint a little bit about what wavelengths they use more and what they use less and in what relative proportions.
You can read papers on the precise differences between the assemblage of photosynthetic proteins in each of these classes and how much of each one they have, but they are very different. And the different proteins absorb very differently. Papers on the absorbance spectrums of these different photosynthetic proteins will give you the expensive accurate version of what your eyeballs are telling you - that green algae and red algae and zooxanthellae are interested in different parts of the spectrum. And changing what's available will shift which classes are happier in an environment.
I may dig up a few of these papers later.
Unfortunately the details of all this haven't been put together in a form that's cohesive and comprehensible to hobbyists, so far as I can tell.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Has anyone done research on what corals do better at different depths on the reef. Spectum changes as you go deeper so I'm curious how that impacts our spectrum choices in a reef aquarium. I've noticed a lot of lights lately focus on blues and less on violets and reds which et filtered out first. I really likes the orpheks spectrum chart as it had a lot of violet and red which would be present in a shallow reef.

Yes, LaJeunesse did some work with Pocilloporas in the Gulf of California, if memory serves. Basically, research has shown that there are 'sun' and 'shade' zoox (to use terms that describe terrestrial plants.) It is an interesting thought that if chromatic adaptation is limited, then spectrum could be a deciding factor for survival. Or is it simply a matter of intensity? I've got most of the lab equipment to investigate this (assuming the protocol is correct), but I'm not sure I have enough years left to get a definitive answer.

 

[oreo54]

Yes, absolutely there must be.
Let me put it this way, When you grab a big mass of diatoms, or Dinos (zooxanthellae included), or chaeto, caulerpa, or a red macro - your eyeballs are a cheap inaccurate spectrophotometer. The colors that we see when these things are lit by broad spectrum lighting hint a little bit about what wavelengths they use more and what they use less and in what relative proportions.
You can read papers on the precise differences between the assemblage of photosynthetic proteins in each of these classes and how much of each one they have, but they are very different. And the different proteins absorb very differently. Papers on the absorbance spectrums of these different photosynthetic proteins will give you the expensive accurate version of what your eyeballs are telling you - that green algae and red algae and zooxanthellae are interested in different parts of the spectrum. And changing what's available will shift which classes are happier in an environment.
I may dig up a few of these papers later.
Unfortunately the details of all this haven't been put together in a form that's cohesive and comprehensible to hobbyists, so far as I can tell.

Unfortunately that has little to do w/ this:

My sump light are mostly red and blue from looking at the led diodes..... I switched out the lights for a CF bulb and they have all mostly died.

Considering the only real difference is higher yellow-green spectrum between the 2. And possibly a bit of UV..